[K5pbem] Hi all, and a long (really I mean that) post about China

[David at antolovich.com]

Hi all, my name is David Antolovich and I almost joined a few years ago as 
Johnnie O’Brien - a low powered but versital esper along the lines of a 
physical adept from shadow run.  Sadly RL in the form of getting hit by an SUV 
and then rear ended by a transit bus about half a year later pretty much shot 
my free time all to hell.  By the time I got it back to together, the game was 
winding down.  Anyway, I talked to Mike and he said, "Sure, come on back", so 
here I am.  

So we are set in HK huh?  Well, I have never been there, but I have been to 
China (my wife is Chinese), and thought I would share some observations that 
may (or may not) help story wise.  Feel fee to pick over or ignore things as 
you will.  And, I hear we have a real expert on the list too. Some one whose 
observations may be better than mine.   Well, enough disclaimers, grab a 
sandwich and a drink and sit down for more than I first intended to write, or 
hit skip.  ;-)

Environment

Probably the first thing a visitor will notice on the way in is the 
pollution.  Coastal cities are all right due to the close proximity of the sea 
and its winds, but some inland cities start to make flying into LA look like 
arrival at a national park in comparison.  Why so?  Well I do not have a firm 
answer here, but there are a few things I do note.  

Environmental awareness and pollution controls are quite secondary to 
pragmatic needs of work and eating.  Expect to smell the nearly pollution 
control free exhaust fumes from cars/trucks/busses running on pretty much 
anything.  Petrol is there, but diesel and compressed natural gas are quite 
common, especially in the ubiquitous VW/Peugeot cabs.

Also, apartments (houses) typically have no heat and sometimes even no indoor 
cooking in parts of the country.  So, people burn coal to cook (or do 
whatever) right there on their balconies.  They are not supposed to do so mind 
you, but do it anyway.  This is present in lower class housing, but indoor 
cooking and sometimes even heat are present in more modern / middle class 
housing

There appear to be no/few curb inlets into the storm sewer system.  So rain 
washes dirt off of buildings and into the street.  It dries in place
 leaving 
it to be tracked right back into first floor businesses, get on your shoes, 
clothes, etc.  As a matter of fact, such places like restaurants have someone 
who tends to sweep a whole lot – at least I know I did at my in laws 
restaurant. ;-)   This appears to be not as much an issue in newer areas of 
big cities, but things are still much dirtier there than here.   Note, when I 
mean dirty, I do not mean litter of which I saw quite little. 

Hmm, and well I am at it few trees, or at least few mature trees.  One upon a 
disater, Mao said to chop down the most of the forests and plant all th lnd as 
farm land to increase food production (around time of cultural revolution).  
The end result was a big dust bowl because there was no wind breaks anymore.  
Needless to say the county / foliage is still recovering from this today. 

Water wise?  Simple, do not drink it from the tap.  No idea if they run 
sanitary and water lines on the same side of the street, but that is a big 
part of why you can't drink some countries tap water and can in others.  Both 
sets of pipes leak over time, especially if not maintained well, and with them 
right next to each other well
 ewwww.   Also plenty of lead based solder in 
use. yum. yum.

Housing / Zoning

Baring special economic zones, or land set aside for the rare rich 
neighborhood, there is essentially no zoning as we know it.  As a matter of 
fact business, factories and housing of all sorts are intermixed.  This is 
almost necessary so that you can live fairly close to work and not have to 
worry about huge traffic congestion problems that a more segregated zoning 
would bring.

For example, (in Shanghai) right next to my wife’s cousins luxury high rise is 
a corrugated tin shanty area and some sort of chemical(?) factory (mmm hmmm, 
yummy smells and such a neato variety of neon colored discharge).   Newer 
development of land tends to be more segregated in that one block or so is 
housing, the next commercial, etc.  But it is still, generally pretty mixed by 
(most of) our western standards.

With the exception of the country side where rammed earth housing is common, 
almost all buildings in a city are multi-story concrete structures.  Typically 
around 5-7 floors in small/medium cities (because any higher and you need to 
build an elevator which costs $$$).  True skyscrapers are in the bigger cities 
(land is too scarce) or for upscale buildings.  Barring such upscale edifices, 
the first floor is usually reserved for street facing shops.  Picture a garage 
door that opens onto the street with a business inside and you pretty much 
have got it.  my inlas old restaurant is an example.  Oh, and here is almost 
no wood construction, as wood is in scarce supply (see Mao above ;-) ).

Low class housing is pretty basic indeed.  A combo kitchen shower area (take a 
hose from the sink folks), family room and two bedrooms and a balcony (used 
for hanging laundry, sometimes cooking and so on).  Figure 600-700 square 
feet.  Oh, and note that I did not mention bathrooms, because
  Da-dah, due to 
the joys of past communism, you may not have one.  Instead you get to share a 
communal one (one for men and one for women) on each floor.   Do expect 
concrete floors and block or poored walls.  Do not expect heat.  Oh, and if 
you are styling in this sort of neighborhood, then you have a window mounted 
AC unit, or even a dual mode unit.  Rock, rock on, you trend setter you. ;-) 

I note that there is also factory housing as well.  Company factory, company 
housing, company store.  Hey, just like the early days of capitalism here.  
However, I have not experienced this particular form of joy, so I can not 
comment on it (for which I am probably greatful).

Lower/middle class housing is bigger (700-800 square feet) and you have your 
own bathroom (weee!)  And, otherwise is pretty similar

Upper class housing is a bit more like what you would expect here in the west, 
if a bit smaller (900-1000 square feet).  Still, may not have built in AC and 
maybe no heat depending on how far south it is.  Wooden and tile floors, no 
concrete block walls or ceiling, and joy of joys, a bathroom with a western 
style flush toilet and a shower stall.  Even a stacked washer / dryer unit, 
instead of the tub and a line on the balcony.

Oh yeah, I did not hit bathrooms yet in detail did I?  They deserve special 
mention as they appear to be at a cross roads of evolution in China.  There 
are western style bathrooms, but not in low class areas or many public 
facilities.  Old style ones can be as simple as a hole in the ground that you 
squat over.  Oh, and a good tip, _do_ bring your own toilet paper, K, because 
it is not neccessarily provided.  

And, while I am ranting here, there is something else odd about bathrooms in 
China.  The whole house can be as clean as you please, but the bathroom may 
not be.  I remember looking at one hotel once.  Nice western style bed, wood 
floors and an attached bathroom that could be a bio-hazard zone.  I swear the 
greenish floor moved on its own. ;-)  I think this is a cultural difference 
issue here personally, but could be wrong.  In any event, if you do go and 
stay at a hotel, make sure it is rated okay for foreign travelers unless this 
does not bother you – bring flip flops and throw them away before you go back 
home.  

Architecture wise?  Up scale stuff like commercial districts are a real treat. 
Far more variety then here state side.  I saw stuff ranging from western, to 
Japanese, to Chinese, and probably more.  If you like looking at buildings, 
you will not be disappointed here – Shanghai’s commercial and financial 
sections are a real treat for example.  However, basic housing/buildings are 
pretty drab and show all the attention to appearance that one would expect 
from a former communist country.

Furnishings?   Pretty much what you would expect, smaller TVs and so forth.  
Beds are hard with mattresses considered odd by many.  Instead, an elevated 
board with some bamboo ‘mattress’ is not unusual to find.  Only plus to this 
is it is cool in the summer.  Just remember that consumer 
goods/electronics/cars are very expensive in China relatively speaking, while 
food and basic necessities/utilities are cheap, but more on that later.

Getting around

Public and mass transit plays a huge role.  Trains are the preferred (well 
readily availabe at cheap rates anyway) method of long distances and are 
generally quite crowded, although there are a few of those super duper maglev 
trains which are a different story.  Busses are more short haul or across town 
along with cabs.  All the cabs tend to be either Peugot hatchbacks (in the 
country) running on CNG or VW Jettas (two models back) running on diesel(?).  
The veedubs are interesting in that they have lots of open mechanical bits on 
the inside of the doors that just beg to snag clothes or an inattentive 
finger.  BTW, in the country side it is considered a high class job to be a 
cab driver.  And, high class to ride one even if only for a few blocks to go 
shopping. ;-)  

Personal transit varies.  Few people own cars, and if you do, parking and 
garage space is hard to find.  Fuel of choice is variable but expensive, I 
have seen stations with petrol, diesel, CNG, and alcohol.  American (Buick 
especially) and German cars are considered good.  Second tier is Japanese 
interestingly enough.  Most (very numerous) Chinese brands are not considered 
as good.  SUVs are looked down on as workman like (this is changing) and cars 
looked up to.   Engine displacement tends to be smaller, and it’s a manual 
transmission world out there, but then again where else in the world is this 
not the case? 

Walking is popular, and pedal bikes abound as well – with a high theft rate 
though.  And, in the smaller cities, I did see some rickshaws, ox carts (watch 
where you step), farm tractors, and even people with those wooden bars across 
their shoulders with pans/jars on each end all sharing the street at once.   
If you get the idea that it can be a bit of transport anarchy when driving in 
such mixed settings, then congratulations captain obvious, you are right. ;-)  

Heck, once I almost had a go in with an egg delivery bike rider whom narrowly 
missed hitting my wife and I.  Apparently, his breaks either sucked, or he was 
afraid to use them.  He lost some eggs anyway and became aggressive.  Given we 
were all just standing there along with a group of pedestrians waiting to 
cross the cross a street, I did not feel sympathy for ‘Mr. too lazy to go 
around/did not watch where he was going.’  Anyway...

Daily Life

Everyone talks about how hard Chinese work getting going at 7 or 8 AM and 
coming home about 12 hours later.  Personally, I would not want a factory job, 
but beyond that I worked a lot harder in IT up here in the midwest.  Sure I 
only clocked 10 hour days on average, but I also did not take daily 3+ hour 
siesta/shopping/lunch breaks either.  Pretty much everyone takes a 
big ‘siesta’ in the middle of the day and has their main meal, usually going 
out with friends, co-workers and sometimes family I locations and times 
permit.  And yup, lunch is usually bigger than dinner.  Since HK is pretty far 
southish (and hot), then I would bet this siesta is a ‘for sure’ regardless of 
time frame we play in.  But I could be wrong.

Meal time is important with both just for enjoyment as well as casual business 
going on.  Food is varied too.  Off the top of my head I have eaten eel, 
turtle, snake, song bird (mmm crunchy) and a whole bunch of other stuff I 
forget right now.  Have yet to try dog or rat, but I intend to some day.  
Forget supermarkets and canned goods for the usual stuff.  In China you buy it 
fresh from various venders each day or so.  And, leftovers are typically left 
out ala Russians, and not put back in the fridge – a hint to eat it fast?  

Seasoning runs the gamut, with each province having its dishes, and level of 
hotness.  For example Sechuan is considered the hottest, both for its food and 
the temper of its women – nick named the spicy sisters.  At this point I can 
truly relate that some stereotypes have basis in fact. ;-)  However, cooking 
in Hong Kong (afaik) is pretty mild on the whole, but I believe they have a 
big variety of food to choose from.  

When you eat, meals are communal in that your group will likely have a bunch 
of bowls and everyone in your group either shares onto their plate, or just 
chopsticks it right on in.  Other silverware is frequently available.  Oh 
yeah, common non-alcoholic lunch drink with a meal is tea, not water.  Since 
my wife and I are not drinkers at all, I can not comment on the booze.

Older folks (30ish+) have a serious don’t waste food (or anything really) 
fetish, they were from a time when food was scarce for sure and everything was 
rationed.  China is (afaik) generally a food importer, so there will probably 
always be more of this attitude than not.  Just seeing me with crumbs on my 
plate when I say I am full still bothers my wife from time to time - even 
after about 10 years here in the states.

In small towns, After work one goes home and eats a bit and then puts on ones 
best clothes and goes out for a stroll to see an be seen.  After that, people 
tend to turn in.  Did not see this happening in the big cities, they are more 
westernized I suppose.

Social Status, Face and Personal Behavior

Seeing and being seen with the right people is really important.  So is not 
losing respect in the view of others, i.e. face.  How you are treated will 
very quite a bit based on where people perceive you to be at in this social 
hierarchy, luckily foreigners are considered pretty high class by default.  My 
guess is that one you are more unique, therefore being seen with you is a plus 
(I.e. the host has connections in strange lands or some such) and foreigners 
tend to have money.  Also, quite a few (although shrinking number of) Chinese 
seek to make it to America, so there is a curiosity over what we are all 
about.  Although there are Chinese who return home having not made it in the 
U.S. of A., but they are referred to as seaweed (washed back onto the beach?) 
and looked down upon.

Heck, just being American got all sorts of extra perks from the local 
government.  A trip here, a meal there, free tickets to see the reservoir near 
my wife’s home town.  Needles to say Hong Kong will be much more cosmopolitan, 
so this will probably not be so big a deal there - it was no were near as 
pronounced in Shanghai.  But, I did get to see what rock star feels like when 
the government was driving us around to look at land.  We went through the 
school district of the town and by god if the kids did not swarm up to and 
press against the sides of the car - at least after they found out an American 
was in it.       

This peception is strong enough to over ride traditional values to large 
degree. It teed my wife off, but more than once a passing mother would tell 
her daughter to look at that American and see if you could be 
his ‘interpreter.’  I use that term loosely, although that is what she told me 
they said.  But, I am not so sure that is a 100% correct translation based on 
her reaction, and how other Chinese sometimes reacted when she presented 
herself as my wife.  I have a strong feeling it was more along the lines 
of ‘sure that honey is your wife *cough* *cough*.   Now lets talk business’ as 
they dismissed her on more than one occasion.  Not a good idea on their part, 
as I assure you I take that attitude rather badly as well.  But, the important 
point for us here may well be that no mom would tell her daughter to be a uh
 
soiled dove?, but a mistress to an American?  Now that is all together a 
different thing.  Perception of realtiy, and not realtiy itself are king.

On the down side after some contact many Chinese consider Americans to be 
hypocrites.   Mostly because we say we like this or that, but really feel the 
opposite.  I am really not sure this is true on the whole, although there are 
parts of America where this is more common.   I chalk it up more to cultural 
differences in how we deal with such issues as saying ‘grandma’s fruit cake 
was really delicious (yuck).’  In China it may not come up, or it gets 
deflected, in America we white lie.  Although, I will say that in business if 
it comes to saving face, they will lie with a skill that would shame a 
stereotypical used car salesman.  So, you best check every step of a biz 
transaction.  Just find an acceptable excuse that does not cost face (more on 
this later).

Chinese tend to have a whole lot less respect for personal space then we do.   
This should be understandable given the population to size ratio.  For 
example, it was not at all unusual for me to pull out a map and have a few 
people come around to look over my shoulder just to see what I was doing.  Not 
to help mind you, although some did.  Most just
 well stood there an peer at 
me, I don’t know what they were thinking really.  My wife said it was rude, 
but they did not seem to think so. ;-)

I should probably go back to the idea that in China your worth and rights are 
indeed related to your social station.  Education is very uneven and there is 
indeed the social effects of a cast system where by Joe Average Factory Worker 
is not worth/worthy of a whole lot.  On the other hand a successful business 
man is.  Hence everyone who is not a bum has good clothes and keeps them clean 
( a challenge I am sure), same with cell phones.  That said you can get ahead 
if you have ability, luck and/or connections.  And this success will transfer 
somewhat to your family.  Presumably because you will be expected to 
financially help the less fortunate relatives thus raising their station as 
well, whether willingly, or just out of sense of duty.  Although, I have seen 
richer relatives avoiding the poorer ones for long peridos of time. 

Another key difference is that family usually has soem sort of pretty strong 
ties.  Usually grandma and grandpa raise the grand kids so that mom and dad 
can work.  Then, in return, when grandpa and grandma need help, their children 
are expected to support/care for them in old age.  A lot of this is pretty 
pragmatic really, especially considering that the government has about zero 
safety net for its citizens.

language is interesting.  While Mandarin is standard, not ever speaks it or 
speaks it well. Nor are teh dialects close.  This really does produce a 
country where the various peoples reatian alot of differences such as cooking 
and so on.  The writtenlanguage is shared, but the tradional written form is a 
real bitch to learn with all those characters so many are fairly illiterate.  

As an aside, from a practical standpoint, there are no yellow pages.  Good 
luck finding things unless you know the town.  When it came to us furiture 
shopping, my wife went alone to China, and I stayed here (work/house building 
timing issues).  I had more luck finding things in Shanghai via google and 
phoning the US branches of stores, than she had on the ground there.  Meh.

Oh, and finally queuing behavior. I believe that you can tell a lot about a 
culture by how and when they stand in line.  Mostly, less line standing and 
somewhat less orderly then US or Germany, but waaay more organized than say 
FSU counties where a line is synonymous for a randomly milling and jostling 
mob.  Seat of the pants meter result?  There is less day to day order and 
structure than in the US, but not by all that much. 

Government

Essentially China seems like, a loosely ruled feudalism, at least in my 
opinion.  The head government controls the army (more or less) and some 
revenue streams, information, and appoints local government people.  But after 
that the local and city government kicks in.  One hand may very well not know 
what another hand is doing. Or, higher level directives may be ignored or 
interpreted widely (or selectively) if their is no visible result that would 
point such deviance out.  Subordinates can, and do, lie to their superiors to 
save face.   

China is no Thailand, where everything is permitted for the right price, but 
it is a lot closer than here.  Again it’s all in how you go about it while 
keeping face.  Take the guy out to a lavish lunch or slip him a gift (red 
letters with cash – very common to get good hospital treatment) just do it 
separate from your negotiations, etc.  So long as what you are doing makes no 
big waves, is not emotionally agitating, is really not visible or has high 
level sanction, its all good.

Although laze faire about most things, information control is paramount to the 
government.  My wife still gets mad at me for saying that China has no truly 
free press.  But, I think she realizes the truth of it.  For example that 
recent riot that people were killed in.  No news of it in China, not even a 
peep, I know because she just got back yesterday.  Then again, rumor central 
runs rampant.  I can point to times when we would hear of a province 
considering rebelling, or of 10,000s dead from SARs in hidden government run 
camps.  The truth of the matters may never really be known to be honest but is 
probalby? exagerated.  

Bureaucracy.  All the government functionaries I met were quite helpful, and 
also sometimes confused.  We had investigated building apartments in China, 
and forming a joint venture.  But, man oh man, it is a truism that these guys 
invented bureaucracy and have had 7,000 years or so to perfect it.  Not even 
they could figure out exactly what needed done for sure.  They really were 
trying to be helpful, even going so far as to provide government cars and so 
forth to shuttle us around from office to office, bought us lunch and so on.  
But it was still a few days of head scratching for all concerned.  For what 
its worth, figuring a safe way to invest in Chinese real estate has got to be 
a veritable gold mine with rapid appreciation BTW.  Doubtless a good source of 
incoem if you want a source of orignal cash for your PC 

Crime, The Law and You

Again your status will have more than something to do with it, it is 
definitely flexible in the right circumstances.  Although getting caught at 
murder, or some such, is gonna be a tough wrap regardless.  Or so I imagine.   
They do not play around with punishment, nor at what we would consider fair 
and open trials.

As a foreigner, I am largely safe from blue collar crime, at least so long as 
I am not stupid.  The enforcement agencies take a really, really dim view of 
hassling foreigners, and such perps will get made an example of one way or 
another – I kid you not.  This is because this would show of a side of China 
that they would rather you not see or broadcast – that face thing again.   

However, such crime clearly does exist.  Bike theft is common, and those 
upscale dwellings all get non-descript thick steel doors on them with serious 
bolts and locks as soon as the owners take possession.  Not only does this 
show hiding of wealth, but the need to hide and secure it.  Hence, such crimes 
must occur with at least some frequency.  The lack of zoning may have 
something to do with this too.  I will note that in poorer neighborhoods 
people did without such doors, although they were always fairly solid and in 
good repair.

As far as corp stuff?  Copyright law is quite weak and innovators will be 
copied if they are successful with little recourse.  For example Audi’s used 
to be a frequent knock off in China.  Some firms even had the same tooling 
Audi used!  I imagine some even had the same emblems on them – lol.  It’s 
better than this now, but still there is little legal recourse.   

Oh, I have never ran across organized crime, so have no clue how it is there.  
Another thing I am thankful for, but doe snot help the game at all.

Economy

Simple summary?  A new pure raw and unadulterated capitalism rapidly consuming 
the last vestiges of communism.  And I do mean raw, almost like back in the 
early 1900s or late 1800s.  My wife calls it the 'ugly duckling' stage of 
capitalism wih I find an apt descripion.  Everything goes, and over site, 
regulation and sometimes even safety are pretty minimal.  My wife’s sister in 
law lost part of her hand for in a factory for example.  A machine did 
something she was tired enough not to be watching for and. . . chop.   She got 
settlement from the company (the government does not want to support the 
unemployed, or be seen to be too stingy in a way that could cause malcontent), 
but it was small.

Also, if Chinese lie, it will be in business.  Maybe, face saving because 
their suppliers are doing the same to them, but none the less watch yourself.  
Order X, and you may get Y.  Want top end furniture, but neglect to specify 
the type of springs?  They may get substituted with a cheaper version than 
what is on the showroom floor.  Buy shampoo or cosmetics?  Watch out because 
there are those who counter fit goods, and what is an identical bottle to a 
name brand may not be what you think.  Want pirated software? Stroll down the 
street or too a flea market and $1 gets you anything.  Heck, go to a software 
store and even they may well be just selling more expensive looking knock 
offs, admittedly with prettier packaging and a manual.  This is not to ay 
crime/mis-represtentation is under every corner, but it is far more common 
than you are probably used to.   

All your basics such as food, utilities and low / low middle sale rent are 
pretty cheap and in the case of utilities probably subsidized.   I admit that 
rent is climbing fast in some parts of China.  Otherwise, the dollar goes 
crazy far here for these sort of items.  Although, if you are smart, you can 
actually do better clothes shopping here, at least if you know how to find 
your local final closeout stores.  Pretty funny, to me at least, given that a 
lot of the stuff was originally made in China.          

On the other hand big ticket items and luxury / consumer goods are taxed to a 
fair thee well by some method I am not sure of.  I know that cars are about 2 
times as expensive there than here.  And, maybe almost 3 times if you want 
comparable quality.  Electronics are also pretty expensive, although not as 
much as they were five or ten years ago.  But it is still cheaper for me to 
catch a sale here on a laptop and then send it back.  A fact a few of my 
relatives have taken me up on.

No offense, but my advice is not to buy Chinese for critical items.  This is 
not to say they can not make good stuff, history shows that Wal-Mart type 
items are mostly okay.  Buy boats, cars or industrial/safety equipment
 Not so 
good an idea unless you are quite careful, and even then, your supplier cannot 
control the erratic quality from his suppliers no matter how honest he is.   
As I said earlier, when it comes to big ticket items, Chinese prefer Korean, 
Japanese, German and American made stuff – kinda funny when you think about 
it.  Rich as we are, we buy on Wal-mart or Marcs price goods to sve a penny.  
The Chinese, whom are much poorer, buy on quality when ever they can.